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paging group calculate?

Viewing 14 posts - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)
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  • #59695
    AliAsgher
    Guest

    Maybe the impact was on Paging Deletions due to Old Page requests. I mean with large number of groups, the time required to page a group will be higher. This might have increased the deleted paging due to Old paging messages.

    I am absolutely not sure about it though.

    #59696
    Pix
    Guest

    Ali,

    Ye,s it makes sense if the “MSC Paging Deletion Timer” (I’m inventing the name) is short (less than 1s).

    It seems strange to put such a short timer on paging though, because the time the MS and BSC establish the SDCCH takes some time too.

    Cheers,
    pix

    #59697
    AliAsgher
    Guest

    Dear Pix,

    A thought just occurred to me while I was having ….. ummm…. dinner. 🙂

    I think that the Paging Queue is a single queue. Not a queue per paging group ?????

    Now dont you think this is a fascinating idea. If we increase no. of groups, we are shortening Paging Queue thats why deleted pages due to Full Queue increases.

    Perhaps I should take dinner thrice a day to become a more vivid thinker ….

    #59698
    Pix
    Guest

    Ali,

    Vivid thoughts, but memory loss… My advice : Stick to 1 dinner per day (for your wife sake), and eat your fish (for your memory) :-))

    Bijoy said:
    “One “Paging Queue” per “Paging Group” is available at the cell level”

    Unless he is wrong, or unless this is a vendor dependent feature, it means that there are as many queues as there are groups. I didn’t check the specs, yet.

    Cheers 🙂 (and please forgive my ironic tone of the 1st chapter, I’m just joking !)

    Pix

    #59699
    AliAsgher
    Guest

    Thanks Pix.

    Well, Yes in the specs it is clearly written that BTS has got One Paging Queue per Paging Group. But I have also found out the time interval between transmission of each Paging Group. It seems surprisingly high. I am sharing it for brainstorming.

    MFRMS = 2, Non Combined BCCH, AGBLK = 0.
    Total Paging Groups = 18, Time B/w transmission of each group = 0.47s

    MFRMS = 6, Non Combined BCCH, AGBLK = 0.
    Total Paging Groups = 54, Time B/w transmission of each group = 1.41s

    I dont know how can that be. Cause 1.41 sec per group is too high. (54 sec each group) This will surely decrease MS power consumption but might also be the reason of unsuccessful paging ????

    Please use your brains now. As I am having my fish. 🙂

    #59700
    Bijoy
    Guest

    Hi Pix
    Your point is valid.Paging queue can vary between 6 to 14 for a cell.When the queue is full, the incoming pages are rejected. Before sending a page the time spent in the queue is calculated. If the time difference between insertion and dequeuing exceeds 5 seconds (default value) then the page will be discarded and not sent.
    As I said earlier also,for cells having high paging load ,setting MFRMS=2 will actually worsen the situation.
    Also,with very high MFRMS,since the requests queued is more,there is a risk of paging deletion due to excessive delay or high paging load.

    I think Fred has cells with nominal paging traffic with all other parameters properly set,so he got a improvement in paging deletion.
    Br\\
    Bijoy

    #59701
    AliAsgher
    Guest

    Well I have again checked the specs, For MFRMS is 9, Transmission time per group may be as high as 2.12 sec. Hence Call setup time for MTC will increase slightly.

    P.S. Typo in the previous post. (54 sec each group is wrong. Total 54 groups with 1.41 seconds in which all groups will be paged)

    #59702
    Bijoy
    Guest

    Exactly.I going to point out that unless I saw your latest post.

    I think Pix is a bit upset today.
    Where r u bro??

    Br\\
    Bijoy

    #59703
    Pix
    Guest

    Letting the experts talk… I’m reading carefully what you are writing !

    As far as I understand : more paging groups = more queuing capacity and longer delay before sending a paging message.

    Why would the longer delay lead to a paging deletion ?
    What is the NSS timer ? What is its typical value ?

    🙂

    #59704
    AliAsgher
    Guest

    OK. Consider the following scenario.

    A Cell has got high Paging Discards with MFRMS settings equal to 6.

    Now this means that paging queue is not enough as pages are being discarded. Also as MFRMS is high, each group comes after a longer time hence each PAGE is needed to be kept in the queue for a longer duration.

    By reducing MFRMS to 2 or 3, we did two important things. Firstly, we increased the Queue Size, secondly we reduced the average time for each Page in the queue. This is the actual thing which reduced the Paging Discards from our cell.

    Regards,

    #59705
    Pix
    Guest

    Ali,

    I can understand that, but I’m not sure it holds mathematically.

    I mean, with MFRMS = 6, there are many queues, and many groups. And in each group, you just have a few amount of pagings (because they are evenly distributed among all the groups).

    By using less groups, you force all pagings to be queued in same queue. But the queue will “out” the pagings faster. Keep in mind that here, the total queuing capacity is less than with a high mfrms.

    With high mfrms – As far as I can see, the pagings are deleted not because the queues are “full”, but because they remain too long in the queue… What do you think ?

    #59706
    Bijoy
    Guest

    I think Fed is fed up:-)

    #59707
    2112
    Guest

    Bijoy,

    Can you please mention the 3GPP Sereies where these details are described for Paging Queue and its Length.

    Thanks.

    #59708
    Y. H. Hashim
    Guest

    Hi All,

    to clear things out, Bijoy’s explanation on page queue is absolutely correct but needs 1 more piece of information, which is that the sum of all groups queue lengths pours in 1 BTS paging queue, and this is why increasing the number of page groups leads to shorter page queue per group.

    I however have 1 question. theoretically, using combined BCCH configuration ( BCCH + CCCH + SDCCH ) leads to fewer paging blocks in a multiframe which should lead to less paging capacity and more discards, however using the page queue length equation gives a higher queue length with combined BCCH comparing to non combined BCCH.
    can someone please explain how this works?

    Yusra.

Viewing 14 posts - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)
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