- This topic has 17 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 10 years, 7 months ago by jzaki.
12th July 2004 at 09:56 #38593DennisGuest
AuC – I’m wondering if algrithms A3 and A8 that have to be implemeted in Auc are licenced (who is licence holder?) or are free (where one can get the specs)? The second question is if AuC is usually developed and supplied by producer of HLR or if it is usually from someone else. In other words if it is possible to buy AuC as separate block? Thanks.13th July 2004 at 08:16 #38594waleedGuest
hi there,the AUC can be implemented from any brand differ than the installed MSW but for more competalility its better to be same as the HLR…13th July 2004 at 08:42 #38595dennisGuest
Is there any usualy used protocol to interconnect AuC with HLR? (because this is only feasible way to connect AuC with HLR from different producer)
About algorithms A3, A8 I have found that they are not strictly standardized. There exist only some proposals that are available from GSM forum. As I suppose the specific algorithm (A3, A8) is negotiated between operator and SIM card supplier. Can anybody confirm this guess? Another question arise: Is it usual that one operator uses more than one type of A3, A8 algorithms – different version of SIMs??? Why? – different level of security???13th July 2004 at 11:21 #38596alexanderGuest
I work on nokia, and in nokia implementation HLR and AUC are the same rack, just 2 different units inside one rack, so there is no possibility and no protocol to connect auc of another vendor to nokia HLR.14th July 2004 at 12:26 #38597S.VijayGuest
Standard says..AUC and HLR as differnt units.But..always in integrated setup to avoide heavy signaling Load.
If you make it as standalone..then you have to Make interface with HLR through C7 Links.And the associated Laod and SCCP funCtions are HEADACHE.
Rgds15th July 2004 at 16:06 #38598dennisGuest
Thanks for reply. What about the second topic? How is common practice with implementation of A3 and A8? If AuC supplier delivers AuC with some set of variants of A3/A8 algorithms and according that SIM card producer supplies SIMs with specific A3/A8 algorithms supported by AuC. Or if this proces is governed by SIM card supplier and specific algoritmhs are loaded into AuC by operator of mobile network. Does anyone have the practical expirience with SIM card ordering concerning A3, A8…?
As I found in AuC Ericsson datasheet AuC supports up to sixteen A3/A8 algorithms in parallel.21st July 2004 at 04:06 #38599mskGuest
As alex said that nokia has inbuilt HLR/AUC. Ithink in most of the companies supplying HLR/AUC in the same rack.21st July 2004 at 10:14 #38600dennisGuest
Thanks,as I wrote the second thing I need to know – What is expected from AuC supplier? Im participate on developing of HLR/AuC. I need to know, if it is expected from customers(operators) that implementation of A3/A8 alg. is done by supplier of AuC or these algirithms run e.g. somewhere externaly centralized and powered by SIM card supplier and AuC only request triplet from there, OR these alg. are loaded to AuC from e.g. CD rom supplied by SIM card supplier OR whatsoever…21st July 2004 at 13:17 #38601S.VijayGuest
From AUC Vendor..Operators expect..
More Load Handling Capacity.
More Flexibility in Upgrading/Changing/SW Changes
Dennis I need …
Some docs related to Network/Switch Dimensioning.
Rgds22nd July 2004 at 08:47 #38602dennisGuest
But this would imply that supplier of AuC has to cooperate with SIM cards suppliers – because for particular subscriber of course same A3/A8 alg. have to be used in MS (SIM) and in AuC. (OR where AuC supplier can get info what precise alg. it should implement…?)
Unfortunatelly anything concerning Network/Switch Dimensioning I dont have, I dealt mainly with signalling troubleshooting and signalling trainings (www.profitel.cz)22nd July 2004 at 11:38 #38603S.VijayGuest
Thanks…for your info.
And related to the Alogrithms you have to check with GSM Association.Becoz they are the one who offers ALGORITHM Info.
When you apply for membership they will provide it.But I am not sure.
Can you give me your mail id at email@example.com
Rgds27th July 2004 at 08:01 #38604dennisGuest
I have couple of new info from one GSM provider about A3/A8 – Implementation is done by AuC supplier, provider gets some questionary – there are probably clarified slectable (optional) things (parameters of A3/A8). Similar questionary GSM provider gets from SIM card supplier. After filling them implemetation phase begins, during implementation SIM cards supplier cooperates with AuC supplier. Then for each SIM card it has to be loaded at least Ki (plus maybe some info – values of parameters of A3/A8 used for this SIM???) into AuC in encrypted way. But I’m not sure if it is really in practice as I write above – can anybody confirm my guesses? Question is if questionaries are based on A3/A8 proposals from GSM forum? In other words – What positive does it bring (imply) the membership in GSM forum for AuC supplier?27th July 2004 at 20:32 #38605S.VijayGuest
Normally AUC is supplied from the vendor who supplies HLR Nodes alongwith other Network Infrastructures.
So they automatically becomes a Memmber.
I dont know anybody who JUST Delivers AUC.
Rgds30th July 2004 at 09:40 #38606dennisGuest
Of course in project in that I involved in the Auc is being developed with other infrastructure as HLR. But I do not see any needs why such developers should attend GSM forum. At the moment I can
not realize what GSM forum can offer for support of developing of other blocks than AuC??? And even for Auc I have some doubts… you can see below…18th May 2005 at 11:47 #38607PrakashGuest
I want to know how A3, A8 and A5 alogrithms work. Like triple DES alogirthms is it any steps present in this algorithms, if yes please inform me.